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Post by deacon on Nov 3, 2008 13:01:20 GMT -5
Acts 10:44-48
These people spoke in tongues prior to baptism as well as received the Holy Spirit prior to baptism. Therefore if baptism is necessary for salvation how then did they receive the Spirit prior to the baptism?
Also, if speaking in tongues is evidence of salvation why then did they speak in tongues prior to baptism?
Thanks.
In Christ, Deacon
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Post by Thee BOB JAMES on Nov 3, 2008 19:12:35 GMT -5
Acts 10:44-48 These people spoke in tongues prior to baptism as well as received the Holy Spirit prior to baptism. Therefore if baptism is necessary for salvation how then did they receive the Spirit prior to the baptism? It is not hard for God to show that someone has repented and cleared their heart and God fill them, that is God's prerogative. God has a plan of being born again of WATER and SPIRIT, not Spirit alone or Water alone. John 3:3-5
God poured out his Spirit on the gentiles before water baptism because it is God's right to do so as it pleases him. He saw the hearts of the gentiles and as a sign he showed Peter who may have been skeptical of baptizing thme and counting them as someone to be saved.
I myself received such Spirit baptism ahead of water baptism, but notice verse 48! PETER COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD~ Jesus. Jesus also commanded water baptism in Mt. 28:18-19.
You , if you deny Spirit or water baptism are unsaved, if you don't get baptized in JESUS name, you are none of his and not part of the family of God, if you deny his Spirit and don't speak in tongues then you are unsaved and going to split the gates of hell wide open and be swallowed up.
IN JESUS NAME AONE
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Post by deacon on Nov 4, 2008 8:34:07 GMT -5
I agree baptism is something that needs to be done by all believers and if you deny doing it then I would consider that a rejection of God.
I agree with you though that God does things according to His will and not ours. In this instance Apostles were there to baptize them immediately. However I get confused though if someone where to hear the same message that the apostles preached today over television for instance and weren't able to be baptized immediately would their belief be enough to keep them until they are able to be baptized in your view?
I also worry though how long it was before even I knew the importance of baptism. I have been a believer for years but wasn't baptized until a few years into my walk. I simply didn't recognize the importance of it according to scripture until I matured. Honestly, no one told me. I saw the big show it was made of in a lot of today's churches and was honestly turned off from it because I felt it was an intimate act between myself and God. That though was prior to me learning of its importance.
Now I believe I was saved prior to my baptism and the Lord allowed me to mature to a point where I finally realized the importance of it and was baptized. Again this was just my own personal experience.
My question though is this:
Do you believe these people were indeed saved and justified before God prior to baptism see as how they were filled with the Holy Spirit and having spoken in tongues?
-If so then baptism isn't necessary for salvation and justification before God although it is to be done as a result of that salvation. Much like works don't save but faith without works is dead. Baptism doesn't save but if you refuse to get it done given the opportunity then your salvation is in question.
or
-If not then being indwelt with the Spirit and speaking in tongues is not sufficent for salvation and baptism is the determining factor.
I would love to hear your opinion on this.
In Christ, Deacon
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Post by Thee BOB JAMES on Nov 5, 2008 16:31:37 GMT -5
I agree with you though that God does things according to His will and not ours. In this instance Apostles were there to baptize them immediately. However I get confused though if someone where to hear the same message that the apostles preached today over television for instance and weren't able to be baptized immediately would their belief be enough to keep them until they are able to be baptized in your view?
Most if responding with true salvation will get ahold of God adn get filled and will be baptized in Jesus name if they are taught and or preached correctly that it is important in your salvation of your sould to be saved. THEY WILL BE BAPTIZED! THEY WILL BE BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME AS WELL. We don't preach that over the Tv, we don't in the vast majroity have any Oneness minister on Tv ministering, I know of only two myself that is T.D. JAKES and he is a compromiser and who cares what he holds now, the other was Mark Hanby and I haven't ehard about him in years. So they will either get it by radio or at our churches of internet 360 program or read it on boards or personal study with a Bible study.
I also worry though how long it was before even I knew the importance of baptism. I have been a believer for years but wasn't baptized until a few years into my walk. I simply didn't recognize the importance of it according to scripture until I matured. Honestly, no one told me. I saw the big show it was made of in a lot of today's churches and was honestly turned off from it because I felt it was an intimate act between myself and God. That though was prior to me learning of its importance.
You were not taught correctly, your church doesn't hold Water baptism in high regard if any really. We do. It is for remission of sins JOHN 20:23, Acts 2:38, acts 22:16 and to be done in Jesus name.
Now I believe I was saved prior to my baptism and the Lord allowed me to mature to a point where I finally realized the importance of it and was baptized. Again this was just my own personal experience.
You are not saved till you are born again of water and the Spirit, water baptism and Spirit baptism thus fulfilling the doctrine of witness and fuflilling 1 John 5:6,8 and John 3:3-5.
My question though is this:
Do you believe these people were indeed saved and justified before God prior to baptism see as how they were filled with the Holy Spirit and having spoken in tongues?
I believe they were in the process of being saved By God, that he required water and Spirit, that he provided the Spirit baptism as a proof and that he required them and even himself and his Apostle commanded them to be baptized, Mt. 28:18-19 and Acts 10:48. MARK 16:16 is clear baptism is a requirement to be saved along with belief and Spirit baptism with tongues and staying saved by living a seperated life.
-If so then baptism isn't necessary for salvation and justification before God although it is to be done as a result of that salvation. Much like works don't save but faith without works is dead. Baptism doesn't save but if you refuse to get it done given the opportunity then your salvation is in question.
But baptism is required and none is saved without it----NONE~! Obedience to the Lord is not the spare tire doctrine you people teach. "HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED, not!!!!"He that believeth and is NOT baptized shall be saved". We obey the Lord not go against his word. Acts of faith is part of the salvation process that he requires BELIEF, CONFESS, REPENT, BE BAPTIZED IN HIS NAME AND GET BAPTIZED WITH THE SPIRIT AND SPEAK IN TONGUES AS HE GIVES THE UTTERANCE.
-If not then being indwelt with the Spirit and speaking in tongues is not sufficent for salvation and baptism is the determining factor.
All must have both water and Spirit baptism, speaking in tongues is the evidential sign and not the Holy Ghost itself, but of his presense in us and fulfilling our salvation. I was baptized with the Spirit first and was to me a sign and evidence the first time I attended a Oneness church and needed no coaching or even hearing a message about such. I fully repented and changed my life by his Spirit coming in me, was baptized in water that very night as well in Jesus name and obeyed the word then.
I
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